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Friday, November 22, 2024

MTL F-7 Re motor

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #17706 by TIMX
MTL F-7 Re motor was created by TIMX
I have recently been developing a motor replacement for our beloved MTL F-7. This mod includes Maxon 8-mm motor and brass flywheels. In addition to improved performance this mod eliminates the offset gear drive and the main source of the noise associated with the MTL F-7. To accommodate the 8-mm motor a small portion of the frame must be milled. An added benefit is that there is space left over in the motor compartment for electronics (decoder). Although I do not have DCC experience in Z I believe the space to be ample. I have been running the heck out of the prototype and have found it to be comparable in speed/ voltage to MTL and AZL diesels. A single loco has been pulling 7-8 AZL heavy weights up 4% grades (quietly). The attached photo is of the original design, some changes have been made since that photo was taken to simplify manufacture but it is basically the same.



The Zelatory
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9 years 10 months ago #17707 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
That looks amazing and certainly will put F7 up there with the other Z scale engines, though, I do not see where there is room for a decoder but that could just be the angle the photo was taken at. Where were you thinking the decoder would fit, below, on top or beside the motor

cheerz Garth

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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #17709 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
I think this shot will better illustrate the space I was talking about. I am not sure of the dimensions of the Z decoders but the space available is 9/16" x 15/32" x 1/8"
(15 mm x 13 mm x 3 mm) approximate.

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9 years 10 months ago #17710 by stonysmith
Replied by stonysmith on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
This decoder should fit in that space with no problem
www.tcsdcc.com/Zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=43&products_id=284
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9 years 10 months ago #17711 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
Oh yes there are several that will fit in that space, ESU, CT electronic, Lenz, in addition to TCS and looks like it is easy to get to motor tabs and to chassis pickup to boot very nice, any idea of price for this conversion, Will certainly extend the life of this venerable old time we love to call the coffee grinder. I have 6 myself and several bare chassis as well under various items.

cheerz Garth
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9 years 10 months ago #17712 by Curn
Replied by Curn on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
This is an upgrade MTL should have done years ago! I passed on buying many of the F7 releases because of all the bad press about how rough they run. I only have one of these, WP 917, and having experienced how bad they are, I never bought another. With this available, I might pick up the other WP F7!

MTL and AZL have stated that the cost of Swiss motors can add significantly to the cost of an engine. Have you put any thought into using the $10 7mm Rokuhan motor as a low cost alternative?
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9 years 10 months ago #17713 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
In my search for motors I never came across the Rokuhan motor till I saw it here on Z Central . Any idea who the original manufacturer is? A 7 mm motor would have some real advantages. The Maxon is a joy to behold but your right its very expensive and giving me my biggest doubts on the feasibility of this whole project. My hope was to be able to have these available by spring 2015. Price is contingent on interest, (price break on the number of motors I order). The other limiting factor is the modification to the frame, it would certainly limit it to those who have the means to do the milling. The option I'm considering is doing all mods here in my shop.

Tim
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9 years 10 months ago #17716 by Mr.JA
Replied by Mr.JA on topic MTL F-7 Re motor

TIMX wrote: Price is contingent on interest, (price break on the number of motors I order). The other limiting factor is the modification to the frame, it would certainly limit it to those who have the means to do the milling. The option I'm considering is doing all mods here in my shop.

Tim


I have at least 9 MTL F-7's that I would commit and send to you for this modification!
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9 years 10 months ago #17717 by t.edmunds
Replied by t.edmunds on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
I have 5 As and 1 B I could commit.
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9 years 10 months ago - 9 years 10 months ago #17718 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
Thank you gentlemen, these are the kinds of responses I was hoping for. I believe I have tracked down the OEM for the Rokuhan motors and will do some testing to see if this could be an option. I do have some serious doubts though, comparing the specs of both the Maxon and the Rokuhan motors I think the Maxon would be the better bet. Even considering the price difference.

Tim
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9 years 10 months ago #17719 by Bill_O
Replied by Bill_O on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
I have 1 A and 1 B to add to the list

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9 years 10 months ago #17720 by tjdreams
Replied by tjdreams on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
Looks good Tim
I have several MTL F7's that I would like to repower
Is the milling something that could be done with a dermal or would it require a milling machine?

David
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9 years 10 months ago #17722 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
I did my initial frame modification with a Dremel so yes it can be done. Not much material needs to be removed but the risk is loosing too much material around the area where the motor mounts slide in. Tim
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9 years 9 months ago #17757 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
Here is a shot of the F-7 frame with the portion of the frame removed to accommodate the new motor. It appears in the photo as the shiny area in the center. Done with a ball end mill it does a very clean job and only removes what is necessary leaving as much weight on the frame as possible.





Tim
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9 years 9 months ago #17758 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
Here is a shot of the F-7 frame with the portion of the frame removed to accommodate the new motor. It appears in the photo as the shiny area in the center. Done with a ball end mill it does a very clean job and only removes what is necessary leaving as much weight on the frame as possible.





Tim

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9 years 9 months ago #17759 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
looking good but would need to have frames milled by someone other than me. Do you want a Rokuhan motor to try it I will have one of each in a few days.

cheerz Garth

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9 years 9 months ago #17761 by TIMX
Replied by TIMX on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
Garth,

I went to the Rokuhan web site and made an attempt at ordering two of the double shaft motor. I am not even sure if my order was placed or not and I have yet to receive any response. Is there a US outlet for these? I would be reluctant to use your motors if you have plans for them but I am eager to find an alternative to the Maxon motor.

Tim

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9 years 9 months ago #17762 by Mr.JA
Replied by Mr.JA on topic MTL F-7 Re motor

TIMX wrote: I went to the Rokuhan web site and made an attempt at ordering two of the double shaft motor. I am not even sure if my order was placed or not and I have yet to receive any response. Tim


Tim, I'm in Japan. I did the same as you, I placed my order through the English page... but, I didn't receive any reply. I then placed my order through the Japanese page, using Google Chrome translator to figure it out. I received a reply within a few days. Or... retry your order and follow up with an email.

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9 years 9 months ago #17763 by ztrack
Replied by ztrack on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
I actually have the Rokuhan motors in stock. I am waiting on pricing which is why we haven't posted them on the sites yet. Tim contact me offline if your interested.

This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

Rob
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9 years 9 months ago #17766 by garthah
Replied by garthah on topic MTL F-7 Re motor
if you are having trouble with the order page then e-mail direct to This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it.

cheerz Garth

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