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Chris: My first layout

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9 years 4 months ago - 9 years 4 months ago #5529 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
With my wife being away for the week I have had a flurry of activity on the layout and revamped some of my earlier work. I think a good way to describe it would be to say that I am using a bespoke diode matrix system to select entry and exit routes to and from the station and to feed the power to the appropriate track sections. The main reason for doing this is to prevent the repeated mis-routing and crashing of trains during a busy operating session with members of the public looking on.

The tweaks referred to above are to make all routes to be powered from the destination track and not from the source track. This has resulted in more logical wiring and the redundancy of two detector tracks. The only snag I have come across is that if a train is coming into the station its power will be cut off if another, say light loco, crosses a detector going in the same direction on another track. I can live with it.

There are now two types of operation.
1. Stopping trains - Operator connects power to the destination track and selects the route to that track. This clears the home signal and the train can proceed to its destination, resetting the home signal to danger as it enters the platform roads.
2. Through trains - Operator selects station road to be used and, at any time BEFORE the train arrives in that road, applies power to the exit main line and clears the appropriate starter signal. (No power needs to be selected in the station.) As the train enters the station road the home signal is reset, cancelling power to the incoming route, and on leaving the station the starter and advance starter signals are reset, removing power from the exit route.
The final modifications are on the drawing board at the moment but 3/4 of the job is complete and up to date on site.

All the drawings (apart from the final ones - down entry power and routing) have been updated and are on my website at trains.manvell.org.uk/z-scale/layout/ . Down routing will be up later today, all being well.

My best wishes to all,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5550 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Hi folks.

Just a short note to say that my pages have been updated after reworking my station entry strategy. Also to advise that the webpage has been moved to trains.manvell.org.uk/layouts/z-scale/Breitefurt/ though the old address will redirect you anyway.

All the best,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5673 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Hi Guys.
Just another short note to say that I have completed and installed two diode matrix boards to control the routing into and out of the hidden sidings. Interesting exercise and much simpler that I had imagined. I should have done this with the station as well, though where I would have put the boards, I have no idea.

So, I am about ready to start getting ready for the Inverness exhibition early next month though there is still a lot to do.

Details, as usual on my website (see previous message).

All the best, everyone,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5674 by ausman2001
Replied by ausman2001 on topic Chris: My first layout
Good one Chris. You're a braver man than I am to go mucking about with electronic thingies like that. Is the Inverness exhibition a big one?

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9 years 4 months ago #5675 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Thanks for the comment. As I said, it is a lot easier than you might expect. The secret is to be thorough in the planning stage.

I am not sure how big the exhibition will be this year. Normally it is quite small, say a dozen layouts, but this year they are in a new venue so could be bigger (there's a link to it at the top of my webpage).

Anyway, off to bed now.
All the bewst,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5699 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Hi Guys.

Really struggling here. I have several signals with varying degrees of damage following an accident, some I can repair but others will have to go back to Viessmann. Fortunately I have two spare new Marklin signals - or so I thought. When I took them out of their boxes, I found that both were electrically dead. As I bought them privately and some time ago, I will have to ship them back to Viessmann as well. So, back in went a broken one.

Y'all be glad to ear that the diode matrices are working perfectly but I have had to buy a beefier power supply to drive all the pointwork involved. I've am adding a new signal - a Vorsignale (distant signal) to the up station exit. It means four more diodes and lengths of wire, but I've got plenty. With a bit of luck I will build a circuit to clear it a few seconds after the starter signals have been cleared (more electronics).

All sections of the layout (apart from a few deliberate exceptions) now work apart from some confusion around the turntable. I really must suss out how it is supposed to work. Is seems a bit random. maybe I'll get that done in time for my next but one exhibition in November.

Well, that's all the news for now.. It is slow progress but I am getting there.

All the best,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5701 by TerryH
Replied by TerryH on topic Chris: My first layout
Chris, I am very impressed with your work. I am laying out control blocks and have many switches. Would it be best to to wire the associated switches within a control block to the same transformer as the power to that control block? Or would it be better to use an entirely different transformer just for wiring all the switches? FYI, everything is Marklin Z.

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9 years 4 months ago #5702 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Hi Terry.

By 'switches', are you referring to turnouts?

Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5703 by loadmaster
Replied by loadmaster on topic Chris: My first layout
Hi Chris,

I think Terry is using switches and turnouts as the same thing. That is like here in the USA our Interstate highways are called divided highways. In the UK they are dual carrageways. Our "Rest Stops" are "Layby's in the UK.
Now back to train talk.

Robert
Modeling on the Left Coast

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9 years 4 months ago #5704 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
I just sent a LONG response to both your and Terry's messages and when I clicked Submit I was told I had to log in to post, even though I was and it said my name at the top of the page. I give up.

Terry: You can use the same controller with built in transformer but may have to put a bridge rectifier on the AC output. If you are using the controller which has a wallwart supply you can use that as is but make sure that you do not connect any wires between the 2 outputs. It will handle the circuits you have seen on my site but not if you have two Viessmann signals in a circuit. I am investigating a 15V 2A wallwart to do the control circuits.

Robert: Yes, sadly people DO use lay-bys as rest rooms. It makes if very unpleasant for people who come along later - especially families with toddlers.

Best,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5705 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
I just sent a LONG response to both your and Terry's messages and when I clicked Submit I was told I had to log in to post, even though I was and it said my name at the top of the page. I give up.

Terry: You can use the same controller with built in transformer but may have to put a bridge rectifier on the AC output. If you are using the controller which has a wallwart supply you can use that as is but make sure that you do not connect any wires between the 2 outputs. It will handle the circuits you have seen on my site but not if you have two Viessmann signals in a circuit. I am investigating a 15V 2A wallwart to do the control circuits.

Robert: Yes, sadly people DO use lay-bys as rest rooms. It makes if very unpleasant for people who come along later - especially families with toddlers.

Best,
Chris.

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9 years 4 months ago #5707 by TerryH
Replied by TerryH on topic Chris: My first layout
Hello Chris,

Sadly, I have experienced the same problem of getting logged out in the middle of a message. It may be my ISP, since I am located so remotely. Another think I get hammered with is using the left and right arrow keys when entering a message. Use your mouse to reposition the cursor and you are safe, else it will completely clear your response.'

Thank you responding, it is very much appreciated. I will use the Accessories output for the switches (turnouts) for each associated control block. I will wire several different control blocks from the same transformer whenever I can (circuit wise). I beleive I can use SPST switches on spurs to kill the power to a siding once I have a trained parked, then use another train elsewhere on that circuit block. I also believe I know how to wire DPDT (3 position switches) to allow two different cabs to control the same section within a control block. If I run into problem, I'll give you a shout.

Thank you very much for your assistance.
TerryH

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9 years 3 months ago - 9 years 3 months ago #5709 by Socalz44
Replied by Socalz44 on topic Chris: My first layout
Chris, Some sort of clich. I too was bounced just after 1200 PDT. Strange! I logged back on and no problems. This was the first time I've ever been bounced off a site. Cheers, Jim CCRR:unsure:

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9 years 3 months ago #5712 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Well, that's it though I do want to add another signal. I had one mysterious problem — the up main controller kept cutting out and had to be turned off for 15 seconds to reset itself. Turned out that the lights were drawing almost 0.5A and the loco just under 0.2A. The power pack supplying the controller has a max. of 0.725A so I disconnected the lights (have ordered an additional 8V 2A power pack) and no further problems.

Later I tried, unsuccessfully, to fit the additional signal only to have a wire catch the up exit distant signal and rip the disc off the top, so feeling a bit depressed. Hopefully I will be able to repair it tomorrow, but it will be very fiddly — which I am not good at.

The temporary scenery is in place (same as last Easter's exhibition) so I now need to do a backdrop to hide the sidings.

All the best,
Chris.

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9 years 3 months ago #5715 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Phew! Vorsignale repaired OK. Actually, it was a lot simpler than I had expected.

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9 years 3 months ago #5717 by ausman2001
Replied by ausman2001 on topic Chris: My first layout
What was the problem Chris? How are those Viessmann signals to work on? I'm planning to buy a few for my layout.

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9 years 3 months ago #5718 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Well, in the case of the Vorsignale, I had ripped the top disc off while trying to fit an old style block signal opposite it. As I said, it was easy to repair. Two Hp0/Hp2 signals were damaged when the layout got dropped by someone helping me to get it out of my car for an exhibition and two platforms ripped away from the baseboard. One still works the arms but the spectacles have become disconnected. The other has one arm broken and the arms have separated from the activation link — easily repaired when I can get access to it. Another block signal has a broken arm. What was really annoying was the two Marklin new sty;e signals, which are made by Viessmann, which have dead motor units. However, I am going to have another look as I cannot believe that two are both defective like that. Viessmann signals are brilliant but VERY delicate. Really, they are better put in after everything else is in position. I have learnt the hard way.

No response from Viessmann yet.

All the best,
Chris.

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9 years 3 months ago #5719 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Progress report.

All the track is working as are all the power and train routing systems. They are very unforgiving and a stray switch left in the wrong position can cause havoc. Friday, I am hoping to get some form of background built and then my daughter has said that she will paint it for me. It will have to be detachable for transport purposes.

All the best,
Chris
trains.manvell.org.uk/layouts/z-scale/Breitefurt/

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9 years 3 months ago #5721 by Socalz44
Replied by Socalz44 on topic Chris: My first layout
Chris, Sounds like good progress. Since I'm a runner all my turnouts are manual and within a meter of each other. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

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9 years 3 months ago #5722 by Dampflok
Replied by Dampflok on topic Chris: My first layout
Well, all mine are pretty close too. But, when they were all manually operated I was constantly forgetting to change them, esp. the double slip, which lead to rear end collisions and side on crashes unless I caught the train in time and backed it back out of trouble. Not acceptable for exhibition work. There is only one manual point on the layout (in a double spur in the hidden sidings) and I can live with that. However, quite a few of the remote points have still to be wired up. That will occur when I install may larger control panel, probably some time early next year.

Best wishes,
Chris.

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