Line of Z Scale Ships Coming

The B & M, I think, did serve the ports of Boston, Portsmouth and Portland. I presume, under Guilford, it did not invest in building container facilities.

My first N-scale port facility was a 6" x 15' extension of a 2' x 23' shelf. It held plenty of large ships without being too much of a hog for space. And it could hold many smaller ships. One of my 1950s freighters would hold about 100 50' boxcars of freight, so I had a reason for some pretty substantial yards at dockside, just like an inland lumber mill would in western Mass. The Connecticut River was never easily navigable, as the mouth was always clogged by sand and silt, and there were substantial dams, so you're not going to see substantial ships upriver.

Not everyone--in fact, perhaps only a few--will buy into the concept of ships on a layout. The way I look at it is that I first have to plant the idea that these ships are available, then some folks may design a harbor or river scene, then they might actually buy a kit or built-up. It might take three years or more. I'm willing to wait.

There are several Z modules with ships on them- I can count 8 -on one hand, right now. And two more saying they intend to build ships- one a Panamax- Do I hear an "R"??
Joe- Good idea about half ship, mounted next to backboard. I was also thinking of taking a panarama foto of one of my ships and place it behind a dock warehouse, with just the house- big white thing- visable above the roof. Or even a bow- woopz- sorry-- front view.
Socal has a destroyer leaving port with crew--sailors--manning the rails- standing by the front fences, moving past a container yard.
Not much water is needed- none if the ship is by backboard and container marshaling yard is in the front.
Boston had two container facilities- one across from Logan Airport at Castle Island- SEALAND. And one in Charlestown on the Mystic River under the Tobin Bridge across from naval hospital. Massport operated this facility and at the time the Hitatchi was the largest container crane in the world. It could switch container spreaders- "lifting racks" - to a big magnet to load scrap iron.
Adrian you are modeling waay out west in Indian Territory- The Mohawk Trail. Nice country. My sister won't go near boats...Which Minuteman Concord or Lexington??
Fred
Pete- we had similar modeling experiences in our youth

Fred wrote: Not much water is needed...

Fred, to look presentable, I believe a docked ship should have again as much water standing alongside of it, as it is wide. This would mean a 6 inch wide ship would need 12 inches of space. Not to argue with you, but some Z scale layouts ARE only 12 inches wide. Even 8 inches is a lot of space to give up on some layouts. Now take my flat idea and it's only three inches in the back of a layout.

Joe

I think a half hull would have to be a modeler's modification. While I can produce "most anything" on a short time frame, I think it would drive me crazy trying to produce a lot of variations of that "most anything." Would folks want a half hull to be half the price of a full hull? A half hull might be harder to build, due to the bending forces--that is, when you have a full hull, the bending forces from the skins tend to equalize nicely, whereas in a half-hull scenario, things might warp mightily, quickly, and irretrievably.

Just thinking aloud. . .

I think I should stick with these ships right now, and try to get the kits out by May 1. Unfortunately the production cutter is acting up again, and I'm in the middle of a host of medical appointments trying to get my eyes and hands fixed. These kits include a LOT of expensive parts. Initial pricing, firm if you order now, but likely to go up:

The 375' container ship. Kit $250. Built up $750.
The 614' container ship. Kit $400. Built up $900.
The 730' Great Lakes bulk freighter. Kit $400. Built up $950.
The 125' Active class USCG cutter. Kit $150. Built up $775, detailed.

Folks, please realize that the little ships take near as much time as the bigger ships.

Pete Nolan wrote: I think a half hull would have to be a modeler's modification.

Maybe build one up and then gently run the band saw through it? Uhhh, although one would end up with two of them this way, I just don't want to be the first one to try the technique.

Zcratchman_Joe wrote:

Pete Nolan wrote: I think a half hull would have to be a modeler's modification.

Maybe build one up and then gently run the band saw through it? Uhhh, although one would end up with two of them this way, I just don't want to be the first one to try the technique.

LOL! The funniest thing: ten years ago I probably would have tried it!

I disagree slightly about the need to have a lot of water around a ship, at least on the edge of a layout. In the middle of the layout, sure, you don't want a 200' ship sitting in a 300' pond. On the edges or proceeding to an edge, I think you can get away with much less. On my layout the ships sat almost at the edge, and I think there was enough interest inward to draw the eye that way. But that's just my opinion.

I do think big ships on small layouts are not really the way to go.

Fred, actually it's Sam the Minuteman - and that confuses people from away some wicked

Yes, amazing how far the B&M stretched out to the wild wild west - I think they just couldn't stop laying track because of the scenery

Didn't know about the container terminals around Boston, thanks for that info. What type of cars would they have been loaded onto in the 1980s ? Would they have moved as unit trains?

Hmmm. Maybe I'll need a container ship after all... somewhere in the very very distant background

Adrian

Minuteman wrote: Hmmm. Maybe I'll need a container ship after all... somewhere in the very very distant background

Adrian

I have had people buy my ships for the den or living room.

What I've seen, since I've just started to show these models, is that once someone sees one of my ships in person and picks it up, it is sold. This is not just railroad folks, but also folks from a local craft show, and old salts. I sincerely hope this continues. I will be at a number of N scale shows this year, and I've just started to look at Z scale shows.

Some of these are selling from much different markets. One person overseas has ordered one of everything I produce, including stuff I haven't produced yet. I think he orders one of everything on the sea.

This is a perfect retirement endeavor for me. I've found it's hard to identify and engage with prospects in an entirely new market, and that the sales cycle, without folks actually seeing the ships, might be very long. So I'll just do the best that I can every day to move it along. I may be trying to kick a giant sandbag uphill, but I will keep trying.

Pete,
You are the right man at the right time. We wish you all the success in this 'sandbag' kicking experience. More of us wish we had this sort of opportunity.

Run with it for all you can. Of course, we will accept nothing less than a pictorial update every now and then.

I believe the question of size and proportions between ships, water and quays is the old classic regarding real proportions don't always look right as a model. Once again - I am not from the States so I might be wrong in the context of american ships in american harbours but still...

In the fifties and sixties my father was working as a controller at a japanese shipyard building oiltankers for a Swedish company called Broströms. He took a lot of photographs (slides) and 8mm film during his time there and most harbor areas appear rather crowded and tight in those photos. There are ships moored on the same pollards with clearances of only a few meters between >100m LOA ships.

I believe how "wrong" a tight fit will look depends on the angles and how you display the ship. In most cases the ships dwarf the harbor installations. Look at how big a modern RORO like the Figaro towers over these cars: www.weltrekordreise.ch/a_akt_p_figaroe.html or the Hercules Highway here: 7seasvessels.com/?attachment_id=117661

Petter

I've spent a fair amount of time cruising around the Boston and New York harbors and was often surprised at how packed the docks can be. Boston is now fairly quiet compared to NY/NJ or Long Beach, and I never saw any of the really big container ships there. I really want to charter a boat some fine summer day and go exploring. On a lark, I took the Salem-Boston passenger ferry a few years ago. The Salem facility was a small dock with a ticket shed--I could have missed it from 100 yards away.

Some rambling thoughts here: As a kid, my dad and I went up to the opening of the Saint Lawrence Seaway. I saw President Eisenhower and the Queen. But the memories that have stuck with me, all these years, were; seeing the cruiser U.S.S. Macon going thru the Welland Canal in the middle of a pasture, with cows all around, (Later the foto was published in Life Magazine) and going directly under the Macon as she passed over a tunnel in the canal. A similar scene could make an interesting segment on a Z module and have the tunnel for the railroad or car traffic- whatever.
I have often thought of making a segment of the C&O canal where mules pulled small canal boats, and have a viaduct over another river, or train tracks.
Regards to half hull models... I would make the hull out of straight grained, dried, soft Ponderosa Pine or other "soft" wood- not Oak!- In the early years I'd cut up a piece of scrap 2X4..and the results have been fine..Lucky!! The shape could be cut on a band saw, saber saw, and once I used just the blade of a hack saw. It's not rocket science. The curves of the bow and stern ( Pointy and Roundy ends) can easily be shaped with sand paper, a drill with sanding disk, or Dremmel. Bulwarks (solid walls around the "bow" - refer to previous definition) can be super glued on with evergreen plastic. Two shapes might need to be cut--the top view looking down (half hull) and a side view where shear may be in the vessel's design. That is the concave curve where the bow is higher than the stern. As far as deckhouse and other details, I'd contact Pete or other manufacture.
I'll post this and start again.

Half hulls are basically a carving job made much easier with power tools. They were used in sailing vessel days to give the "lofters" a general idea of how the hull should be built. The lofters were the guys responsible for cutting the wood in the correct shape to be fitted together, and a loft was big enough to draw a full size ship. It was a great exercise of geometry and of translating 2D into 3D. It was also where many ship design terms came from, such as the nearly incomprehensible "scantlings."

You'll see half hulls in many maritime museums. For a model railroad, I'd build them out of any convenient material. Most museums now just demand a stable wood, so good quality spruce and fir (furniture grade, not 2 x 4 grade) are acceptable, as are mahogany (preferred), maple, ash, white oak and southern (hard) pine.

Here is that tunnel under the Seaway- could be auto or rail traffic depending on module.

Wow, a ship with booms raised, and going uphill nonetheless! LOL.

Was going to show you the Port Welcome prototype tonight, but brought home the pre-prototype by mistake. Going to be an interesting ship to build correctly. And yes, it is very much a bathtub!

Had a little free time Sunday to play around with Fred's Port Welcome. Here is the mockup portside:



Starboard rear:



Obviously some adjustments need to be made at the bow to make the bulwarks (solid railings) higher, and to get the rear in better proportions.

Any comments, Fred? Is the bow more pointed? Does the pilot house hang out too far? I didn't have a stack of the correct scale.

Anyone interested in this as a kit? It's 125 Z scale feet long (7").

Check this kit out: www.schreiber-bogen.com/cat.php?ac=3&t=394

John

Thanks for the link!

Schreiber-Bogen does very nice paper models, and very nice work in everything else they undertake on commission! Their detail kits are expensive, as you might expect, and they state that some of their ship dioramas took a year to build to near-museum quality.

Schreiber-Bogen was pretty standard at all the hobby shops here in Germany. I have been to hobby shows and people do amazing thing with paper. I love the Zeppelin models and was wanting to blow one up to HO scale. (there was a really cool zepp and airship model forum online) IF I won the big lottery, I would get a digital cutter and make all kinds of stuff, and have the detailed parts made with a digital printer.

For paper, the $200 Silhouette SD (and others similar) can do a precise job. I love paper models, but when you get up to bigger ships, they require an enormous amount of work. BTW, they are very, very strong when built correctly. I will use paper for some details when appropriate, but prefer .010" (.25 mm) styrene, which the Silhouette will cut, usually with two passes at max pressure and a fairly slow speed. I have no relationship with the Silhouette, nor the Black Cat Cougar cutters. I've just been using them a lot.