Ultrasonic cleaning; is it safe?

Hi All.

I was wondering if anyone here has tried using an ultrasonic cleaning tank for cleaning locomotive parts (e.g. complete chassis assemblies). Is this feasible or will it destroy the loco? I am thinking here specifically of Märklin steam locos but other types as well as that may be of interest for others on this forum.

With best wishes for New Year and for 2011,
Chris.

Being a clockmaker, I would say that it would be safe for the steel & etc. but be sure to dry the components off afterward to prevent corrosion. I wouldn't suggest putting the motor in, obviously. Use an ammonia-based solution. Clockmaker's ultrasonic cleaning solution would be a good chemical to use on metal. Using the solution on grease-laden steel-pinions on clock gears, the material cleaned up really well.

Thanks Robert - sounds good.

One suggestion I received was to use a piece of track and power the loco with just the chassis (not motor) in the u/s solution.

Best wishes,
Chris.

DO NOT. I REPEAT, DO NOT attempt to power the loco with ANY PART of it in a solution unless the solution is non-conductive and benign to electronics (ie. A control/contact cleaner & lubricant). I don't know that jewelry cleaner is either of those.

Thanks Joseph. It's the sort of thing that one can overlook.

I have had several suggestions for the 'cleaning' fluid and will heed your warning if I go down this line of thinking.

Best wishes,
Chris.

One of the shops where I get Z material uses such a tank for cleaning a whole chassis. From the time it took them to do this I don't think they remove anything.

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have decided to give it a miss, for now at least.

With best wishes,
Chris.

Chris, guns are safe too........if used properly.

Folks have been using ultrasonic cleaners to clean dirty chassis and locos for a long time now. You just have to know how to do it properly.....

It was just that the one I was looking at was not going to up to it and one that would be are expensive and I have a lot of bills over teh next two months. I haven't given up on the idea.
Chris.

Hi Chris,

Say, I've got like 10 or 11 locos coming in a couple of weeks (ironically they are being shipped from my buddy in Scotland where you live). I know that some of the locos will probably need a good cleaning. I'll do some experimenting on a couple of them. I'll drop a working one into a regular jewelry cleaning solution and run the machine for 5 or 10 minutes. Then I'll dry it completely and see how/if it runs (I have extra motors if one gets ruined). I'll then try the same thing with a more powerful type of cleaner and again check the results. I'll post the results here. I'm not sure when these will be shipped as I'm waiting on one more package from Germany to get there before my friend ships the whole works to me here in the States. I'm hoping they should arrive within three to four weeks depending on that last package arrival... if you can wait that long.

Joe

That's Great Joe. I look forward to seeing the results.
Best wishes,
Chris.

Test complete! Well my shipment of used locomotives finally arrived so I had a few extras for testing purposes.

I used one of your readily available discount department store $15.00 - $20.00 ultrasonic jewelry cleaners. I used the same type of cheap jewelry cleaning solution (smells heavily of ammonia) found alongside the cleaner.

I took a perfectly good/like new Marklin 8800 locomotive.

Although not really needed, I removed the shell to make everything easier (especially for drying afterwards). I also removed the capacitor (the little disc just in front of the motor) just so I didn't lose it. Not all engines have a capacitor like this - don't worry if you don't see one.

I put the loco in the solution tank and made sure it was completely immersed in the cleaning solution.

I turned on the ultrasonic cleaner on the high setting for 5 minutes (jewelry is only supposed to be in for 1 to 2 minutes).

I then drained the loco in the included basket for half a minute and then it went into the rinsing tank for 2 minutes.

I used canned air (HIGHLY recommended) to blow-dry the loco as best I could.

I oiled the locos wheel gears, and then put a tiny drop on the top of the armature, and one small drop below the motor along the armature shaft where it sits (and spins) on the chassis. I oiled the wheel gears a bit heavier than normal (a BIG drop on each) so that when spinning, the extra oil will wash out any residual cleaning solution that might not have dispersed and dried with the canned air.

Tested it and it ran just fine!

Testing finished, and that should put an end to the question of if an ultrasonic jewelry cleaner can be used without immediate damage to an engine.

It does not answer the question if it does any future harm to the motor or working parts. Although the ammonia in the jewelry cleaning solution is slightly corrosive, using it for such a short period of time should not do any damage, even to the fine wire contained in the motor windings. In fact I'd venture to say one could forget about it and leave it sit overnight without any damage. The only concern I might have is a bit of rust if someone did not rinse and dry the chassis thoroughly and then neglected to re-oil the machine.

Best of luck,
Joe

Thank you for that Joe. I feel that your test can put minds to rest. I have to go through the nearest town (100 miles away) next weekend to get my layout to an exhibition so will drop into the electronics store there (Maplins) and see what they have for sale.

Just out of curiosity, what do you use for lubricating the loco? I don't mean the type of oil, but the method of application. I never seem to get a really small drop.

Best wishes,
Chris.

Thanks for such a detailed report, having bought a number of locos from Ebay I was wondering how to give them all a good clean before using them, but wouldn't have had the courage to test a loco in the cleaner! Glad you did and with no side effects!

Dampflok wrote:

Just out of curiosity, what do you use for lubricating the loco? I don't mean the type of oil, but the method of application. I never seem to get a really small drop.

Hi Chris, I just use the regular needle applicator that comes with most oils of this type and give the bottle a slight squeeze. But the size of "the drop" also depends on the type of bottle the oil is in (easy to squeeze or not). Practice on a paper towel where you can see the amount of oil that spreads out with various pressures.

Thanks Joe.

timbo wrote:

Thanks for such a detailed report, having bought a number of locos from Ebay I was wondering how to give them all a good clean

You’re welcome. I’m rather glad it worked with no ill effects too, however just to set the record straight… this is not to say that I advocate using this method on all the used locos one buys. In fact, even though I had just gotten in a supply of used locos this was the only one I tested this method of cleaning on. Why? Why bother? They didn’t need a “deep cleaning”. I’d say that only one loco out of the past 25 actually needed this type of cleaning and that one had the motor burned out anyway. Don’t get me wrong, I buy some very dirty old locos, but usually they either run or not. If they don’t run, it’s usually the brushes or motor/armature that needs replacing. If they do run, but are rather “dirty”, I might spray some “Control /Contact Cleaner & Lubricant” (available at Radio Shack) on the armature and wheels gears, quickly wipe off the excess with a paper towel, and then immediately run the loco for a short time on my test track (maybe 30-60 seconds) both directions. I then wipe it down again very well. [Of course, then I need to clean my track again.]

After working with these little locos for a time, one can judge just what kind of “dirty” they are. There is the dirt that is the accumulation of years of dust. The accumulation of metal particles from normal wear mixed with oil. The accumulation of smoke from slightly burning the motor. And the accumulation of all of the above. So why wouldn’t I want to ultrasonically clean the loco no matter what kind of “dirty” the loco is? Two reasons. First, I really do not know if this method has any long term problems. But that’s not really a reason because in my heart I don’t really think there are any long term detrimental effects. [Don’t quote me on that.] The real reason is because of the old saying; “If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it!”

For the same reason one should not get the automatic transmission oil changed out in an old car, I don’t think that these parts need to be cleaned quite that well. In the case of the transmission, it may start slipping and cost a ton of money to be fixed. The parts in the transmission had worn together into a harmonious marriage. I believe it’s the same with these locos. Clean them this well, and you may find that they are now a bit noisier that they were before. The “dirt” that was once metal, now mixed with a bit of oil, might be filling in the “gaps” left by the worn away metal. Clean this away and the parts now fit just a bit looser, hence a bit noisier.

On the other hand, too much dirt can force the parts away from each other. This can cause gears to start slipping and then you have even more work on your hands. This is not to be confused with gears that start to slip just because they were designed wrong as in the case of the Marklin American steamer Mikado and Pacific models.

So the question is, to ultrasonic clean of not to ultrasonic clean? Here’s where a bit of experience comes into play. If they are just a bit “dirty”, I’d just use a bit of Control /Contact Cleaner & Lubricant and leave it at that. If they are really “gunky” to where the Control /Contact Cleaner & Lubricant doesn’t seem to do any cleaning, then I might use the ultrasonic cleaner.

I want to add one tidbit here that I should have mentioned with the oiling amount question above, but it goes well here too (especially for collectors and hoarders that keep things boxed away – like me). Most oils can discolor the paint on a loco if it stays in contact for a long period of time. You will notice this more on the lighter color paint jobs but it’s the same for all colors. For that reason alone, over oiling should be avoided, but what I also do is take an extra precaution. I place a small bit of paper towel folder up under just the wheels when I store my locos. This gives any oil a place to go if by chance a bit leaks out. I also MAKE SURE I store my locos in the upright position so they sit on their wheels. This way no oil can leak out to touch and discolor the body if I don’t get back to it for a year.

Hope this helps.

Just a quick aside. I work in an eyeglass shop. With our ultrasonic cleaners we use one drop of dawn dish detergent. Works well on small rhinestones, swarovsky's and other embellishments too without too much risk of corroding the frame. It's also gentler on plastic lenses.


Zac

Thanks to you both for the above two comments - yes you are right don't do it for the sake of it, but a lot of those that I have bought are from "I bought this one 10 years ago and have kept it in the loft ever since" sellers, and when I look at them most seem to be full of "solid" oil dog hairs etc etc. Luckily I have bought way more than I need so can experiment on a soft clean and if that is not enough can go onto the unltrasonic approach if needed.
Interestingly enough most of the cleaners offered online by Maplin are the "green" ones that just use warm water and no chemicals so quite intrigued by the jeweller's additive!