Any Polish railway fans on the forum?

Strange question, I know, but the reason is to find more about a couple of engines that were made in Belgium, left for Germany in WWII and turned up in Poland after the war. But nothing is known about them since.

How can I help?
Chris

Don't know if we should do this through the forum or take it off line. But the issue is the following:

In 1932 there was made in Belgium a giant Franco(-Crosti) engine. I put Crosti between paratheses as his name wasn't yet linked to this type of engine at that time. It was the first of it's type. It did only a few runs and was then exposed at the 1935 world fair.

Nothing came of it, the boiler was sold and the rest laid up. During WWII the Sänger company (Bremen) ordered 2 engines and the parts laid up were used. Both engines left Belgium in the spring of 1944.

They appear to be used at Deutsche Werft in Kiel and passed then on -through the russians- to the PKP. There they got mumbers 0601 (Poznan)and 0602 (Gdansk). Last info is that the 0602 was broken up in Krakow in 1955.

Now in Belgium itself there isn't much to find apart from what a few book tell (like the Polish link I copied here). The archives are lost due to the war and due to negligence. So I would like to try to find something in Poland, but I don't know any polish... First thing I'd like to do is to find some contact with some train freaks in poland that I could talk to in english or french or german with the idea to find the track at that end. The Bremen link looks difficult as well knowing the fate of Bremen during the end of the war.

Unless others are interested I propose we continue by email.

Yes, I know what you are talking about - rest via an e-mail
Chris

Thanks.

Hey Guys,

I model European, primarily Swiss (SBB/BLS) and am expanding into Austria (OBB). I love history and this interests me. Please continue or use my email if you want to do this off form. Since there is a Form for European Steam, Diesel and Electric it could be in one of those forms. However, they are about models, so maybe we need a "History" form for this type of discussion.

Jim/Brad: Are you listening???

Robert

I am with Robert, please continue!

There is a coal train that runs from Poland into Germany. I keep hoping Marklin will release the cars in Z scale. I believe they already have done so in HO. There is a German web cam that I watch frequently, and I have a few screen captures of this train working the rails.

Rob

Rob,

What is the address for that German web cam? I've come across several Swiss web cams.

Here is Landquart Railstation

www.bildersammlung.ch/landquart-outlet-village-alpenrhein-webcam-live-eins/webcam.php

I hope you enjoy surfing.

Robert

Fellows, I to wish they would use ZCS for Polish railroad info. We can't learn anything without reading about it. Interesting you would think that I might object. Other than occasional spelling or grammer corrections and locking last week's fracus on one Forum I have always allowed all railroad topics to appear here. So bring is on. P.S. No Jokes Please. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Robert,

It is:

www.frankenstein-wetter.de/webcam10n_aktuell.php

Click on Direktverbindung to get the live video stream. Switch the stream to max.

If you click on the still image on the like, you will get a static large shot of the image. I plan to replicate this scene on my layout.

Rob

Regarding tracking the locomotive down. It would help to know what class it was before it was left in Poland after war. Then it might be possible to figure out the class it was assigned in Poland. Also, not all documentation could be around due to war, and the fact that until 1990 polish railways were a protected state secret. Meaning it was illegal to take pictures, and because it was a secret some documents could have been lost or destroyed.

If you need some translations from Polish to English I can help.

Konrad

These two locos were never assigned official "PKP" (Polish National Railway) number and were only used for testing.
There are no known existing photos of them while in Poland and both were eventually scrapped.
There was a short article about them in "Swiat Koleji" (World of Railways) magazine No4/2004.
Apparently they were stationed in Poznan workshop and listed on the inventory of DOKP (Regional Directorate of National Railways) in Gdansk.
There are some rumours that they were used for a while on experimental basis on Klodzko-Kudowa line, but it is highly unlikely that they were ever used operationally.
You can read about them here but there is only single line about their eventual fate in Poland.

Socalz44 wrote:

...Interesting you would think that I might object. ...Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

No it wasn't a matter of you (or anybody else) objecting - simply didn't think it would interest anybody
ps don't get me started or else I will bore you forever after about Polish Railways
My great grandfather worked on Ostbahn (when it was part of KPEV) and later on PKP, hence my interest in the subject.
Chris

Chris, As always I trust you judgement. This is interesting to some without a doubt. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Any chance of obatianing a copy of that article somewhere? These are the type of things I'm looking for.

I haven't found more than that single line. The original source of it is the book "Vapeur en Belgique" by Phil Dambly ("Steam in Belgium"). Which is a book giving a historical overview of all steam engines that ran in Belgium. There is however no attribution of where that info comes from.

It cannot be the railway company (NMBS) as neither the original loc nor both spin-off's ever were aquired by the NMBS. I tried to find the archives of the builder, but those got lost partly during the war, partly during aquisition by other companies later and by willfull destruction when steam was phased out. Unless someone saved some parts personally.

Havoc wrote:

Any chance of obtaining a copy of that article somewhere? These are the type of things I'm looking for....

I haven't got it, but I'll see what I can do

Havoc wrote:

...I tried to find the archives of the builder, but those got lost partly during the war, partly during aquisition by other companies later and by willfull destruction when steam was phased out. Unless someone saved some parts personally...

Strangely this was exactly the story with another loco I was researching (built by Vulcan Foundry Newton-le-Willows see here ). In the end I found the only remaining drawings and microfilms for this loco in Maritime Museum (of all places). But at least I have found it, so there is a hope for you yet?

Chris:

For myself, I don't have a particular interest in Polish Rail. However, I love history and I love mechanical things - so I really like the history of mechanical things. I went on vacation over the Christmas Holiday. One of my 2 souvenier T-shirts is a mechanical drawing of a historic lighthouse with the dimensions. How geeky is that? So bring on the history of mechanical things. It's always great to read.

Besides, sometimes it is these kinds of discussions that spur someone to venture into something new. I was reading in MRR last night about a fellow in England modeling a specific steeplechase loco in Yakima, Washington. He got his interest reading a historic article about it in RMC. You never know where it will lead. . .



Cheers,
Jeremy

I don't mind I have a few books on the topic of Polish Railroads... Considering I used to love staring hours on hours at the trains when I was a kid (I lived in Poland for 19 years) I don't think you could bore me... I'll try to dig up a few pictures from my most recent trip to Poland where I took some photos at Szczecin Central Station.

best

Konrad

bambuko wrote:

Socalz44 wrote:

...Interesting you would think that I might object. ...Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

No it wasn't a matter of you (or anybody else) objecting - simply didn't think it would interest anybody
ps don't get me started or else I will bore you forever after about Polish Railways
My great grandfather worked on Ostbahn (when it was part of KPEV) and later on PKP, hence my interest in the subject.
Chris