Are more micro-trains track options planned?

Hi Guys,
Does anyone know if Micro-trains is planning on releasing additional track pieces? For example curved turnouts, crossings, etc?

Thanks

Konrad

Hi Konrad,
Yes, MTL is working on new track pieces now, but no curved turnouts are planned as far as I know. I'll have to pester Joe and find out.....
Loren

I think it would be great if Micro-trains released curved turnouts, crossing and double slip switch tracks. The Micro-trains track is imho superior in looks and quality to Marklin.

Konrad

Konrad, I agree. On the other hand in today's economy I think we will have to be happy with what we get. I think someday we will see the curved turnout. Double Slip? Not likely in my lifetime. I believe I heard the number $15000 just to do a curved turnout. MTL has us by the short ones and I'm not sure you will want to pay $50 per turnout. I would, but most would not. One thing I will add, and this is just 'me' talking, is that I'm one of the MTL Micro Track converts. This one concept has done more to get Z scale railroading out of the small suitcase and into room sized layouts than any product since Marklin. My first years in Z seemed always to be trying to disavow the public notion of 'how cute' and 'my that is sure tiny' z scale is. 'Toylike', if you will. Today I see our module buddies showing the public that z scale can present 24 scale miles of mainline at trainshows in a nowhere near 'toylike' fashion. Look at the Z layouts popping up all over the websites. Gone for the most part is the notion that small cases are what Z is all about. Look at Bill Mock and I winning Trainboard photo contests all the time. Why? Because the original complaint/concern about Z was realism. Take a look at these contests an see who represents the most 'real' subject matter. To me, most N and HO entries in these contests look toylike, not the Z entries. Who's laughing now. Maybe Z scalers, probably not folks that have $50000 invested in HO scale layouts without anything but shiny new rolling stock. Not all modelers have the gift of making it look 'real'. That's ok there is always room in any hobby for all levels. Enjoy the best we can with our skills and equipment available, and let the other scales chase us. Cheers, Jim CCRR

Jim, that's a great "rah-rah for Z scale" post. Unfortunately, I think it misses the mark in places, and is a bit misleading. For starters, I don't think Micro-Trains has anyone "by the short ones." No one is forcing us to buy only what they offer. Nor are they deliberately limiting us to what they make; as you said, a curved turnout is a huge investment just to tool up. I'm sure if the market for it existed, they'd be cutting the steel tomorrow. But the reality is the market mirrors exactly what it can support, nothing more, nothing less. And when a small-time manufacturer closes up shop, we can bet that the market simply wasn't there for them. I think we're mighty lucky we have what we do.

With respect to Z scale realism, I don't mean to be the sobering voice of reason, but the truth is that there are loads and loads of N scale modelers who can dance rings around the best Z scalers. They are simply not represented in the contest. You and Bill have been winning because you've legitimately been posting the best shots, no doubt about it. But if some really talented N or HO scalers showed up, there'd be no hope for any of us Z scalers, myself included. It's all a matter of who is participating, and unfortunately the contest is by no means representative of what's possible across the different scales.

This is not to say we Z scalers have failed to graduate from the "cute toy" realm; quite the contrary. We've proven that we can take Z scale to new heights and go head-to-head with the "big boys." But when push comes to shove, if a really talented HO or N scaler entered their best in that contest, it would be all over. So, who's laughing now? Probably the really talented guys who don't bother with the contest. This in no way is meant to put down those who do enter, but the painful reality is that true contest-grade modeling is not showing up there.

Want to see some really fine stuff? Here's one random example of N scale that doesn't look like N scale: prr-n-scale.blogspot.com/ . I have no illusions of ever being able to approach this level of quality in Z scale, no matter how long I try. Look at the images on Model Railroad Hobbyist model-railroad-hobbyist.com/ . They caption them "Yes, this is a model" for a reason: some of them can indeed be mistaken for the real thing. Other great examples show up regularly at The Railwire. But quite often the best of the best don't even bother with the online forums; they're too busy building spectacular models.

Again, this is not meant to dispirit any Z scalers; it's only meant to place Z scale on a more accurate footing with respect to other scales. We've come a long way since all the cute briefcase layouts and the constant put-downs from the larger scale modelers. But it's a bit off the mark to think that Z scale has "won" the realism contest; we're only just beginning to catch up.



Socalz44 wrote:

Konrad, I agree. On the other hand in today's economy I think we will have to be happy with what we get. I think someday we will see the curved turnout. Double Slip? Not likely in my lifetime. I believe I heard the number $15000 just to do a curved turnout. MTL has us by the short ones and I'm not sure you will want to pay $50 per turnout. I would, but most would not. One thing I will add, and this is just 'me' talking, is that I'm one of the MTL Micro Track converts. This one concept has done more to get Z scale railroading out of the small suitcase and into room sized layouts than any product since Marklin. My first years in Z seemed always to be trying to disavow the public notion of 'how cute' and 'my that is sure tiny' z scale is. 'Toylike', if you will. Today I see our module buddies showing the public that z scale can present 24 scale miles of mainline at trainshows in a nowhere near 'toylike' fashion. Look at the Z layouts popping up all over the websites. Gone for the most part is the notion that small cases are what Z is all about. Look at Bill Mock and I winning Trainboard photo contests all the time. Why? Because the original complaint/concern about Z was realism. Take a look at these contests an see who represents the most 'real' subject matter. To me, most N and HO entries in these contests look toylike, not the Z entries. Who's laughing now. Maybe Z scalers, probably not folks that have $50000 invested in HO scale layouts without anything but shiny new rolling stock. Not all modelers have the gift of making it look 'real'. That's ok there is always room in any hobby for all levels. Enjoy the best we can with our skills and equipment available, and let the other scales chase us. Cheers, Jim CCRR

I agree with the statement that the Micro-trains track is the best thing to happen to Z in a long time. For me personally it will make building modular layouts easier and cheaper than using marklin track (I can always mix and match track whenever necessary). I would pay a reasonable amount of money for a curved turnout, as long as it was priced competitively to a marklin one, just like the regular turnouts are.

As for building in other scales. Well I've been bouncing around between different scales N -> HO -> Z -> N -> Z (looks like Z is recurring a lot here ). My biggest concern with bigger scales is the space requirement for getting anything "large" done. Especially when modeling US prototypes (I am a pennsy transition era fan, and also DB Era III fan). I want a station, some industry, main line, etc... but I do not want the layout to take the whole attic (which I do not have anyway ).

As for rolling stock I have an MTH HO K-4 and a set of heavy weights. I have an N scale L-1 which I kitbashed out of Model Power Heavy Mikado, I also have an N-scale K-4 (old minitrix model) that awaits some repowering love... I can understand why people are leery of making their HO models weathered... If a locomotive costs you upwards of $300 ($500 for a marklin HO one) then it is really difficult to risk damaging it by weathering.

As a side note, If a K-4 or L-1 is ever produced in Z-Scale (at a reasonable price, say $300 range) I will snag it as well :-P... Most of the HO and N scale stuff is there to run on the club layout ... I'm not planning on building layouts for these, due to space concerns. I had some european Z scale stock but I donated it to the club as well... Now I'm buying some more

I want my trains to run on DCC. Just recently I found out that it is possible to add sound to Z locomotives by using the SoundTraxx box system, or +Sound4D module to the rail-road control program. So for making Z sound like a real thing there are ways of doing it

Ok... enough of my rambling

best

Konrad

David, I didn't mean to imply that yours, mine, or Bill's modeling was superior to the fine work, public or private, in other scales. Frankly, I think your contributions are equal to the example you gave in the link. Be that as it may, my goal is to raise the level of Z presentations to the general model railroading community as something more than briefcases. If producing adequate or above quality photos to the 12000 members of Trainboard's contests is a way to do it, then I encourage all Z scalers to take the plunge. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Jim, I realize your motive. Mine was just keeping the hyperbole in check! Carry on.

Socalz44 wrote:

David, I didn't mean to imply that yours, mine, or Bill's modeling was superior to the fine work, public or private, in other scales. Frankly, I think your contributions are equal to the example you gave in the link. Be that as it may, my goal is to raise the level of Z presentations to the general model railroading community as something more than briefcases. If producing adequate or above quality photos to the 12000 members of Trainboard's contests is a way to do it, then I encourage all Z scalers to take the plunge. Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Hi,

This is Joe using Loren's account. Dave is right about contests and level of detail generally achieved in Z. I think we need to focus more on Z's Strong suite in being able to model a region or landscape more than being able to put scale nails in wood. What Z offers is the opportunity to run convincing consists through larger landscapes and maybe that needs to be our focus.

Cheers

Joe
MTL

Ps. if the market was strong enough, curved switches would be top of the list, but things are getting better so who knows.

OK, this is really Loren this time....

Before Joe shoved me aside....(just kidding) I was going to say that it is the size that makes it possible to achieve great detail. We are never going to be able to achieve the level of detail in Z as those who work in HO or O or any other scale.

As a matter of fact, if you model in O scale, there is no excuse to not be able to do fantastic detail. While in Z we can only mimic it to a certain degree.

At the Medford and BAZ shows this past weekend, both clubs had large areas of landscape to travel through, thus making our trains look more like real life.

Trains travel through miles and miles of scenery and since we can do more of it in a given space, we are blessed in that respect.

No one could ever criticize Dave's wonderful small layout with the detail he has done, but I'll bet he would love to have a large room size layout with the same attention to detail as his smaller layout. The only problem is, Dave will never live long enough to make it happen. Good things take time and us graying geezers are running out of time. So, we just keep plodding along and hope we can razzle dazzle the other scale guys. And we're doing it too.

Suitcase layouts will never lose their appeal, but the day of layout empires are approaching, (as Jim has shown so nicely).

Let's just hope the economy doesn't stop us all from having fun......

Everyone should adopt Jim Manley's mantra as the saying of the day......

"Changing the world, one train show at a time"

Loren

I found this discussion by accident due to the heading. I think more should read it.

When I see what Gerd has done in Z with engines I am not so sure we can not compete with the bigger scales. It was said of N-scale in the 70's and today no one thinks that anymore. I am building a CN Pointe Charles Van and with the availability of micro LED's it will have operating ditch lights and I am not sure about doing the classifications lights yet but I am sure even that is possible now. We now have operating ditch lights in Z on locomotives. I have some 10mil fibre optic and think that class lights on my fp7 are even possible. Even number boards can be done. To bad I can't paint as well as I can do other things.

I agree with Joe and Loren about showing the operating side of railroads as this is where we can shine and take it a bit further in Z than in N. I think because of this feature we could become the new darlings of the show circuit. I also think we need to get the track closer to the floor as our future is in those youngsters who are more vertically challenged than we are.

cheerz garth

I ran across something interesting while I was browsing around the Greenberg show last weekend- a fully functional electric train set even smaller than Z. The vendor called it "T"; they're made in Japan (go figure). He also had an MTL GP-35 running around on a loop of track and it looked positively gargantuan next to the itty bitty little Japanese train set. The Z-scale locomotive, with its far greater level of detail, also had the effect of making the new "smallest" scale look toylike- and the way it stuttered and kept falling off the track, it really didn't have a whole lot going for it in the reliability department. Three or four other people walking by commented that it would look great on a large-scale layout as a model of a model railroad- no one I heard made similar comments about the Z-scale displays, even though there were some positively incredible G-Scale steamers down at the other end of the hall across from the only other Z vendor.

I remember getting my first American Z-scale starter set (which followed a German set by about a year), and it looked positively beautiful compared to HO sets sitting on the opposite shelf! My MTL F-7 came with magnetic knuckle couplers, whereas the HO sets- and even quite a lot of otherwise quality separate items- were still coming standard with those awful horn-hook jobs that absolutely refused to ever come apart even when you wanted them to.

Now look at what's available; while starter sets in larger scales still don't look quite as nice as they probably ought to, at least compared to higher-quality offerings in the same scales, they've really come a long way. I wouldn't say that's all because of Z, but isn't it odd that many of the details that Z gets knocked for not having weren't present in N and HO even as few as ten or fifteen years ago? I still have my first HO F-7, from the very first train set I ever got... I was bloody excited about it, but if I compare it to my first Z-scale F-unit which is based on much older tooling... guess which is the nicer model? Toylike my foot.

I don't think it's unfair to compare most models in Z-scale to starter equipment in larger scales, either- at least in the cases of MTL and Marklin, the locomotives in the starter sets are identical to every other locomotive of the same type offered at all. Call that a happy side-effect of the same limitations that hurt in other ways... for now, at least, we have only a few grades of quality to work with and even the lowest common denominator is better than any other scale has ever started out with.

Maybe my perspective is a bit skewed- when I stopped following the scale closely back in 2005 (along with just about everything else, since none of it would fit in a college dorm), Marklin was still slapping the "new" label on all of their 5-pole motors and the only locomotive in the MTL lineup was the F-7. It's only been four years, and now there are half a dozen good, quality hood units with flywheels, properly built power supplies, three different kinds of knuckle couplers, some incredible kitbashes, production kits to convert European drive mechanisms to power specific US prototypes... the list goes on and on. That's not growth, that's an explosion.

It's a funny thing- a few weeks ago, I had a Samsonite hard-sided suitcase and was perfectly satisfied with my plan to put a loop of track in it and call that a layout. Now I've gone and dug up the old 4x8 sheet of plywood I used to put down to run my HO trains on and I'm marking it out so I can cut it up and build something somewhat more ambitious. I'm heading to Home Depot as soon as I have a free day so I can get some lumber for the benchwork. Forgive my sounding so young and awestruck; I'm both! More track options? Yes, please- I'm gonna need them.

silentargus wrote:

I ran across something interesting while I was browsing around the Greenberg show last weekend- a fully functional electric train set even smaller than Z. The vendor called it "T"; they're made in Japan (go figure). He also had an MTL GP-35 running around on a loop of track and it looked positively gargantuan next to the itty bitty little Japanese train set.

Yes, T... 1:450. You can read all about it here: www.t-gauge.net/

...and here: 1-450.blogspot.com/

A couple of samples...

Wow! This thread really got hi-jacked.

Joe, Loren... I remember reading some time during the past year, that Micro-Track pieces were in the works. Is this still true? Any time frame for a release?

TechRep wrote:

Wow! This thread really got hi-jacked.

>Joe, Loren... I remember reading some time during the past year, that Micro-Track >pieces were in the works. Is this still true? Any time frame for a release?

I shouldn't speak for Joe as I'm only his side kick, (his version of Tonto) but he has said that funds are available now for development of new track pieces.

With perhaps the exception of the curved turnout, I believe it was the original intent of MTL to duplicate the Marklin pieces of track per se.

Only time will tell as to what is being thought up by MTL, AZL, and all the other manufacturers. It's a mystery which we love to speculate about.

It seems that Z scalers are very greedy when it comes to new product development. Maybe hungry is a better word, but no matter, we Z scalers seem to devour any new product that hits the shelves.

Everyone knows or should know that it is most usually the lack of operating funds that slows up R&D and finally production of any product. The ideas for new products are heaped high, but the funds to bring them to life are rather slim.

I'll bet that everyone of us feel like kids standing in front of that toy store in the Movie "A Christmas Story" with Peter Billingsley who wanted that Red Rider BB gun.

Speaking of Christmas...what is on your 'must have' or at least 'would like to have' list for Christmas this year?

Me? I want a Challenger by AZL and then someday I want someone to make a Berkshire.......the most beautiful loco in the world.......cause I said so:cheer:

Loren

Hey David, or anyone else who might be in the know..... do you think T scale will ever have NA type locos and cars?

I can picture in my mind already beautiful layouts in T and I know David amongst others must have secret dreams of T scale layouts in the future.
Loren

tealplanes wrote:

Hey David, or anyone else who might be in the know..... do you think T scale will ever have NA type locos and cars?

I can picture in my mind already beautiful layouts in T and I know David amongst others must have secret dreams of T scale layouts in the future.
Loren

I hope I'm proven wrong, but I have strong doubts anything will be released for NA in T. If it did, I imagine it might be third-party items to modify the Japanese prototypes, along the lines of Robert Ray's Northern Pacific passenger coaches.

Eishindo have glorious plans for T, including steam locos and trolleys, but I personally don't think they'll achieve all of their lofty goals; I think they'll be doing really well if they can just get their track switches and second-generation trainsets released. Interest in T is fading fast, unfortunately, and it feeds a vicious cycle: loss of interest means loss of sales, which means loss of revenue to continue making more.

If we think we have it tough in Z, just try sticking with T.

Hey David, or anyone else who might be in the know..... do you think T scale will ever have NA type locos and cars?

I can picture in my mind already beautiful layouts in T and I know David amongst others must have secret dreams of T scale layouts in the future.
Loren

TechRep wrote:

Wow! This thread really got hi-jacked.

>Joe, Loren... I remember reading some time during the past year, that Micro-Track >pieces were in the works. Is this still true? Any time frame for a release?

I shouldn't speak for Joe as I'm only his side kick, (his version of Tonto) but he has said that funds are available now for development of new track pieces.

With perhaps the exception of the curved turnout, I believe it was the original intent of MTL to duplicate the Marklin pieces of track per se.

Only time will tell as to what is being thought up by MTL, AZL, and all the other manufacturers. It's a mystery which we love to speculate about.

It seems that Z scalers are very greedy when it comes to new product development. Maybe hungry is a better word, but no matter, we Z scalers seem to devour any new product that hits the shelves.

Everyone knows or should know that it is most usually the lack of operating funds that slows up R&D and finally production of any product. The ideas for new products are heaped high, but the funds to bring them to life are rather slim.

I'll bet that everyone of us feel like kids standing in front of that toy store in the Movie "A Christmas Story" with Peter Billingsley who wanted that Red Rider BB gun.

Speaking of Christmas...what is on your 'must have' or at least 'would like to have' list for Christmas this year?

Me? I want a Challenger by AZL and then someday I want someone to make a Berkshire.......the most beautiful loco in the world.......cause I said so:cheer:

Loren

Ah... Loren... having a few problems with posting?