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New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15973 by Gerd
Gerd replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL

RobA wrote: This is a very interesting thread! :) :) :)


WTF????? :angry:

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15974 by tealplanes
tealplanes replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL

markm wrote: [quote=" The biggest cost of development has got to be the data: research, CAD, paint etc., and you already have that. It seems from the posts that there is considerable interest in porting some of the MTL N designs to Z.
Mark


Mark,
I don't think the costs of research, CAD, paint, etc come anywhere near the cost of cutting steel for a new car body.

I've heard figures from $50,000 to $80,000 for cutting steel for a new car body style here in the USA. That may or may not be accurate, but with what machinists charge I can see how the price could sky rocket easily.

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4 years 2 weeks ago - 4 years 2 weeks ago #15981 by Mr.JA
Mr.JA replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL

Gerd wrote: WTF????? :angry:


Gerd... this was from an old (1970's) comedy show in the U.S., called "Laugh-In". I remember watching it as an early teen, but not understanding it.

Laugh-In

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15982 by markm
markm replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL
Loren,
As always I have to defer to people actually doing the work, but since I'm always trolling for a new company to do, I collect business facts.
I am aware of the cost of molds. Years ago, I used to routinely drop $40K for IC package molds. But using the same presses for Z scale, I could produce an AZL production run (about 200 pieces) in just 4 shots and every boxcar ever made in a day's production run. I've also recently learned that molds can be cut for as little as $5K. If the steel is really going for $50-$80K, I think I know where I can pick-up a cheap CNC unit (which even back in the 70's were making machinists obsolete) and I've found another business opportunity.
I do think you are under estimating the development costs. How much time can be spent at the CSRM library researching a paint formula for a railroad or the time to find a
builders blueprint and the cost of getting copies for that info.

Then there is the 3D CAD designer who has to digitize all that info. It was suggested to me that a "mountainous" producer of model railroad put a man-year into the CAD effort for their first Z car. And what does that CAD designer cost? somewhere between $50K - $100K per year.

In my calculations, the R&D costs of a new body style is roughly the same as the manufacturing tooling costs. Given the choice of one brand new car body or two shrunk down from N scale, I'd prefer the later.

Mark

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15983 by tealplanes
tealplanes replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL
Mark,

Good enlightening info for me. No matter the cost, no Z scaler will argue that anything new would be greatly appreciated and wanted by many.

If anyone can produce something new, I'm all for it and will yell 'hip hip hooray!

I do wish I were rich and could contribute more to Z.
The following user(s) said Thank You: southernnscale

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15993 by RobA
RobA replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL

Mr.JA wrote:

Gerd wrote: WTF????? :angry:


Gerd... this was from an old (1970's) comedy show in the U.S., called "Laugh-In". I remember watching it as an early teen, but not understanding it.

Laugh-In


It was meant as a joke (thus the smiley faces) I was feeling like a bit of a spy watching a thread about future MTL products. The "stupid" part was meant as self deprecating humor. (I felt a little stupid looking at the MTL thread.)

I'm probably showing my age by using an old line from Laugh In.

No harm was intended. Nor were any animals harmed in writing this post.

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15998 by N/A
N/A replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL
Rob,

I loved it! "Laugh-In", I used to watch it all the time!

John

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4 years 2 weeks ago #15999 by markm
markm replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL
Rob(A),
You may be showing your age, but by my calculations, you and Arte Johnson should have both been riding your tricycles about the same time. :-}

Loren,
My numbers may be way off and may have provided a good laugh to the insiders, but the point to make is that unless the N scale designs are in some nonrecoverable, uneditable format, one should be able to shrink them to Z faster than the CNC can cut the steel. And whether it increases the number of new body designs by even just 25% it would be the improvement that it seems most of us want. In SillyCon Valley I used be be able to do shrinks of 1Meg transistor chips at a rate of one a week.

Mark

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4 years 2 weeks ago #16000 by markm
markm replied the topic: Re: New Z Freight Car suggestions wanted by MTL
Joe,
Don't know if it's too late and I know this isn't exactly frieght, but how about something like this:




At one time, I think every railroad in the country owned a couple of these for short line runs, or MOW. Even railroads not known for passenger service (such at the Great Western RR, which owned this sole revenue passenger car) had them.

Mark
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