Playing around with design...........

Guys, I still can not understand.
You play now around with the design from the forum about 2 years.
It is really the only forum that I know, who change look every few days.
You are right, it is not my, but your problem, totally agree.
But, where and when the end ?

Greetings

Armand

Don't see the problem if the content stays the same. If every time the content would disappear that would be another story.

That said there is a lot of wasted space. I have a rather large monitor and even then I can't display the whole reply page. The "submit" button is 2 turns of the scrollwheel away from the bottom of the screen.

But what I don't understand is that even now I every time I visit the forum I have to reload the page in order to see where the new posts are. At least this time I'm logged in. So probably after a few more changes it will work as everywhere else...

I've offered the following main page design to "management" as a recommendation for an improved layout:

jamesriverbranch.net/images/zcs.jpg

As a visual designer, as well as a software engineer specializing in user interface design and usability, I feel qualified to make the recommendation.

Whether or not it's even feasible within the limitations of Joomla software is unknown to me, so it may be for naught. (It's not software I would choose, but the choice was already made and there's no turning back now.)

Whether or not "management" desires to act on the recommendation is also an unknown. I've simply extended the offer for help, since the current design (not meaning to be disparaging) leaves a fair bit to be desired.

David, I agree. Yours looks the best. The only thing missing is the 'Welcome to Z Central Station' greeting. I'll make sure Brad sees this. Thanks, Jim CCRR:)

Not very fond of that suggestion either. If you ask for it then this is my impression:
- far too busy: a first visitor to the site hasn't any idea what this site is about but get trown a lot of detail info in his face.
- main sponsor below the visible screen
- why the top20 posters on the front page? No-one visiting the site for the first time is interested in that. Neither most people that come here often.
- the counters at the bottom look a bit artificially trown together to fit a rectangular piece of screen estate. (don't know how to put it better, it doesn't look "natural" in a way)
- what are those photo comments doing there? They are presented completely out of context.

EDIT: just looked at the "home" page, I normally go directly to the forum. The above is just as well applicable to the current home page. In general: too much below the visible screen: all the needed info in a home page should be visible directly without any scrolling needed.

I dont want to criticize your layout choices, but the frequency.
the first ZCentral was simple, but stays always my preferred.
But I have problems to understand some of the page contents.
Why to present members Avatars ? I know we have the film, but....
Sponsoring, yes OK, why not.
But.
I drive a forum in Germany,

www.antik-automaten.de

, very quick response, happy with provider company,
and it cost 6 Euro/ 8$ (a few beer) for one month. I can not imagine
that this is more expensive in US.
So nobody can tell me that driving a forum need sponsoring or donations.
Last, the Z-points, childish, I even dont use them in super-market.

Greetings

Armand

Havoc wrote:

Not very fond of that suggestion either. If you ask for it then this is my impression:
- far too busy: a first visitor to the site hasn't any idea what this site is about but get trown a lot of detail info in his face.
- main sponsor below the visible screen
- why the top20 posters on the front page? No-one visiting the site for the first time is interested in that. Neither most people that come here often.
- the counters at the bottom look a bit artificially trown together to fit a rectangular piece of screen estate. (don't know how to put it better, it doesn't look "natural" in a way)
- what are those photo comments doing there? They are presented completely out of context.

EDIT: just looked at the "home" page, I normally go directly to the forum. The above is just as well applicable to the current home page. In general: too much below the visible screen: all the needed info in a home page should be visible directly without any scrolling needed.

Cleantex wrote:

I dont want to criticize your layout choices, but the frequency.
the first ZCentral was simple, but stays always my preferred.
But I have problems to understand some of the page contents.
Why to present members Avatars ? I know we have the film, but....
Sponsoring, yes OK, why not.
But.
I drive a forum in Germany,

www.antik-automaten.de

, very quick response, happy with provider company,
and it cost 6 Euro/ 8$ (a few beer) for one month. I can not imagine
that this is more expensive in US.
So nobody can tell me that driving a forum need sponsoring or donations.
Last, the Z-points, childish, I even dont use them in super-market.

Many of the issues described above are a function--and limitation--of the software in use here. As I said, I would never have chosen Joomla, but that's now history. I also made most of the choices for the things featured on the main page based on what seems to have appeared there most frequently up to now, with the assumption that they comprise the most-desired core elements; I also tried to avoid too radical a change so as not to confuse existing users.

Layout and features could be debated ad infinitum, with no final consensus among all users. I simply made suggestions that make use of existing software and features. I totally, totally agree that there could be vast improvements in all respects, but I don't think it's practical or even possible to achieve much under the circumstances. For instance, I agree Z points are a complete waste of space and time, but others here do not agree, and some will fight to the death to maintain their point status. Whatever.

Armand, as for the cost of the service, one must deal with the fact of life that we get what we pay for. Yes, we can get a web host for less than ten bucks a month... and with it comes the headache of too much downtime and worthless customer support. And when there are problems, we webmasters get more than an earful from grumpy, nasty visitors. It's better to ask for money from them and pay for decent service than to have to deal with their griping. Believe me, been there, done that. So, you go enjoy your beer.

Anyway, I just offered up my little contribution to the cause. The rest of the crowd can debate it until the cows come home. Doesn't matter to me; I've done my bit.

Socalz44 wrote:

David, I agree. Yours looks the best. The only thing missing is the 'Welcome to Z Central Station' greeting. I'll make sure Brad sees this.

Thanks Jim, I already PMed him.

By the way, I deliberately left out the "welcome to" section, as it's more or less unnecessary, not to mention rather odd to be placed partway down the page. "Welcome to" was added to the banner image to provide a greeting, and as for describing the features to visitors, they can easily see what's available just by looking at the main menu. It brings to mind an old tale often told in ad agencies from many years back, as a lesson for new recruits. It describes a street vendor who sells fish. His sign reads, "Fresh fish sold here today." Well, first, "today" doesn't mean anything, since today is always today. "Here" doesn't mean anything either, since he is where he is. "Sold" is silly to say because he's obviously not there to give it away. "Fish" is unnecessary because it's quite obvious what he's selling. And "Fresh" is superfluous because he wouldn't be selling old fish--our nose can tell it's fresh. Moral of the story: he needs no sign at all!

There's seems to be a glitch in the new design. In my browser: Opera the menue on top is pushed together on the Home site. If I go to any other part like Forum, Gallery or such it is OK

Many of the issues described above are a function--and limitation--of the software in use here. As I said, I would never have chosen Joomla, but that's now history. I also made most of the choices for the things featured on the main page based on what seems to have appeared there most frequently up to now, with the assumption that they comprise the most-desired core elements; I also tried to avoid too radical a change so as not to confuse existing users.

Sorry to come back to this, but I don't think the software is to blame for this. Having a home page that lists the most frequent posters isn't the fault of the software. This is info that would be better presented on the global "forums" page. there it makes sense and is relevant.

It makes sense to put your main sponsor on the main page, he pays for a part of it all. But then you give him a place that put him a bit in the spotlight, not on the bottom of a page that you only see after 2 complete turns of the scroll wheel.

I feel it would be better to put the "welcome" at the top so that first time visitors know what this is about, the photos ( as ingle row) below it because people like photo's, then blogs and agenda just below followed by the sponsor (visible if loaded on the most common resolution) and some statistics. Everything about members online, most frequent posters, member spotlight on a page where you can subscribe so that those that want to subscribe see how active the site is. Stuff like shoutbox, points and photocomment put it on a pgae where it is relevant.

There's seems to be a glitch in the new design. In my browser: Opera the menue on top is pushed together on the Home site. If I go to any other part like Forum, Gallery or such it is OK

Same here.

I really appreciate everyones input. I love it. I will try and share my view on it. First I like to change the look once in a while, liven things up a bit, keep it fresh. Web sites can look old and stale within months. I think everyone agrees they do not like what appears to be "empty space" where the login/text sizer/search modules are. Me either, I will change it. I had put "new members" toward the top of the page (over recent photos) because we have a lot of members joining now days and I feel we could do a better job engaging them. I also put the latest blogs up there because blogging is a contemporary technology we as group do not embrace often. As far as Joomla itself (our software) , I think it is great. It is robust, stable, scalable, affordable, and most of all flexible. Since it is simply open source PHP it can be altered in any possibly conceivable manner if one has the time and desire. If anyone knows of software that would be easier for me to use (requires little to no coding), that is more afforadble, scalable, reliable, etc please let me in on the secret! For now we have joomla. So I may try to fix this look a bit or may may try another. Hopefully addressing everyones concerns.

bsteg wrote:

I had put "new members" toward the top of the page (over recent photos) because we have a lot of members joining now days and I feel we could do a better job engaging them.

Brad,
Nothing will ever suit us all equally, but the one thing I'd love to see is more members, old and new, posting here. So many are lurkers only, and while that is perfectly acceptable, to keep it fresh like you mention, we need more 'ingredients'....i.e. more postings from more members.

After all, we are a special family in many respects and I'd like to get to know more of my brothers and sisters........

Loren

Brad- Seems that the forums do not display properly- might be that you are still working on the site.
Fred

Fred, Could you be more specific? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

Socalz44 wrote:

Fred, Could you be more specific? Cheers, Jim CCRR:)

What Fred might mean is this:

in my case it appears on some parts of the website, but not on all. And the browser is Opera. In Internet Explorer I don't see this problem.

Sure Jim- I didn't want to get too detailed as Brad might still be working on this and is aware. Take "Just for Fun" - select a page goes from 11-21 in a VERTICAL --lots of wasted space. can't get the first 11 pages even if I hit start.
Also when I hit the avatar of featured member- the most recent foto section appears on that page. plus more- and then the members data. Seems redundant. Again when I hit a single "recent posted" picture, I get the complete set again and down below is the selected foto.
Also in the foto section there is the line- "Comments-- most of which are (0) eventhough there are numerous post for many of the pictures. Maybe this "Comment" line should be deleted-- seems like a lot of work to bring that up to date.
Jim- Brad-- These are not critisisms- I understand you are revamping the site, but maybe you can't see these pages on your computer as some- maybe many of the members do.
I'm also hoping the archives come back-- there was a lot of duplication there also--not of the individual galleries but the initial pages.
I speak in hopes to help not to confuse or complain.
Fred

Jim- Looks like someone is working on this-still can'y get first pages of multiple page forums:S
PS KEEP THE SANTA FE-header:)

Brad and Jim, thanks for the work on this website.

...just what I wanted to say in between...

Fred wrote:

KEEP THE SANTA FE-header:)

Definitely keep the Santa Fe...

I see Freds problem, I;m working on it...