European wagons (Made in USA)

Dom, I've been in Z from almost the beginning and for the first decade plus, it was dominated by European models- check out Marklin's list of models and you will be astounded as to what was available ( and still might be on some dusty shelves)There were of course repaints-- but there were a myriad of different and distinct models.
The North American market was almost ignored--- how long did it take to get a hopper- hood units and passenger cars ( Heavy weights anyone?).
Some Euro trains are being found on U.S. rails. These models could be produced in the US of A for both sides of the pond, just different paint schemes. But they tend to be the most modern eras. Many American locos were used in Europe just after the war.
The U.S. market could use older street cars, a General, light rail, and so much more.... the z market is relatively small and I doubt it's big enough to invest in all the country specific models you mentioned. There are also massive rail complexes in Russia and China that seem to be not represented in Z. We have worked hard to expand Z in the US. Let's keep it rolling.
Fred

it was dominated by European models- check out Marklin's list of models

Don't confound european with German/Swiss. If you take a look at the Marklin catalog you'll find 99% german models, about 0.9% Swiss models (a lot of different advertising versions of the same engine) and maybe 0.1% other european models. There have been 3 belgian engines: two weres a repaint of german models (so not realy representative), the other a "nohab" together with the danish version (both approximative models). I can't recall a french or dutch model, neither any other country.

Many American locos were used in Europe just after the war.

There were indeed a lot of US (and canadian!) loco's after the war. But don't forget that those were not engines that ran in the US! They were made for the european loading gauge and load limits. Often to european designs but build in the US because the european factories were bombed flat. The belgian type 29 is a typical example of such an engine. www.rail.lu/materiel/sncb29_013.html It doesn't look like a typical US engine at all.

There are also massive rail complexes in Russia and China that seem to be not represented in Z.

Have been thinking about that, but honestly I couldn't find any example in any other scale either. But I couldn't imagine that there is no one doing railroad modelling in those countries. With the added complication that russia is braod gauge (and so are spain and portugal (at least partially)).

Some Euro trains are being found on U.S. rails.

I'm surprised, any info on that? Some links would be fine.

Fred wrote:

Dom, I've been in Z from almost the beginning and for the first decade plus, it was dominated by European models- check out Marklin's list of models and you will be astounded as to what was available ( and still might be on some dusty shelves)There were of course repaints-- but there were a myriad of different and distinct models.
The North American market was almost ignored--- how long did it take to get a hopper- hood units and passenger cars ( Heavy weights anyone?).
Some Euro trains are being found on U.S. rails. These models could be produced in the US of A for both sides of the pond, just different paint schemes. But they tend to be the most modern eras. Many American locos were used in Europe just after the war.
The U.S. market could use older street cars, a General, light rail, and so much more.... the z market is relatively small and I doubt it's big enough to invest in all the country specific models you mentioned. There are also massive rail complexes in Russia and China that seem to be not represented in Z. We have worked hard to expand Z in the US. Let's keep it rolling.
Fred

Fred, I agree with all what you write above. But my own statement was about the difference between every european country's rolling stock. In the american continent you can find a GP38-2 everywhere from Yucatan to Alaska or from California to Quebec.

In Europe until only a few time ago every country had its own rolling stock. Italian locos had nothing to share with british locos that had nothing to share with french locos that had nothing to share with german locos that had nothing to share with ..... etc. I'm using here the imperfect because most locomotive manufacturers share now a market that covers Europe as a whole, but if you want for example a Z scale SNCF 67000-Class diesel loco your only choice is scratchbuilding it.

As I said earlier I'm an american prototype modeller so I don't care but I can understand the frustration of european non-german-swiss-austrian prototype Z scale modellers.... It was the meaning of my previous post speaking of the "historic Z scale manufacturer..."

Dom

Some Euro trains are being found on U.S. rails.

I'm surprised, any info on that? Some links would be fine.

I guess the Talgo trains that run around Seattle, for example. Originally it's a spanish design whose purpose was the ability to run either on spanish - portuguese broad gauge (1.676 meter track gauge) or on standard track gauge of the remaining of Europe (France, Switzerland, Italy, etc...). It's funny to see these trains that are low even to european standards running between F59PHI sets.... The height's difference is amazing!

Dom

Thanks, interesting read about the Talgo. Don't see them in Belgium.

Ok so what about another choice. Kato makes great things in N.. I think they have the knowhow to produce European as well as NA trains.

If you look at the European forums right now, a big discussion is going on about the quality of the new 5 pole motors. The windings are different and the motors are cruder . Evidently there has been a change and they are not the same as earlier motors.
German are very proud of Maerklin, and the company is kind of a flagship of "made in Germany". It's like Mercedes. You know it hurts when somthing goes wrong with a country's icon. Remember New Coke??????
And people are very passionate about it. Nobody wants Maerklin to go out of business and they dont want them to drop Z. But the scale is out there, and some people want to run trains as opposed to collect them. We have 4 or more major US based companies making US trains, We have several German companies making US trains. Im not counting companies that make trains in other scales that could jump into the market (If Z continues to grow, would it not be just a matter of time? They have the drawings, the license agreements, the knowhow, they just need to scale it down??)
OK I started this argument because I am selfish too. YES I LOVE my US engines and cars. I just want my cake and my strudel too. I want some low cost era 3/4 German railcars that can go down the track being pulled by my German locamotive, thats more than 4 wagons long, and looks like somthing I have seen on rails or in pictures, that wont cost a forture.

dominique wrote:

Some Euro trains are being found on U.S. rails.

I'm surprised, any info on that? Some links would be fine.

I guess the Talgo trains that run around Seattle, for example. Originally it's a spanish design whose purpose was the ability to run either on spanish - portuguese broad gauge (1.676 meter track gauge) or on standard track gauge of the remaining of Europe (France, Switzerland, Italy, etc...). It's funny to see these trains that are low even to european standards running between F59PHI sets.... The height's difference is amazing!

Dom

That'd be the Amtrak Cascades. Dom is right about the height differences. The power-cars at each end of the train set have tapering facades at the car ends where they are attached to the engines so the height change appears more gradual. I've said before that the Amtrak Cascades trainsets look like painted cotton swabs (Q-Tips).

Mike

Now here's a thought. Like in USA, a great, great many European freight trains are container trains. But this is something not well served either for US or European prototypes. Modern European flat cars to carry containers, especially the more prototypically common 4-axle type, is devilishly difficult to come by from Marklin (AJC Kids sells two sets with Taurus locomotives, and I really want them, but the price approaches $400). Considering that there are now multiple sources of containers, we need some affordable flat cars sold in multiple packs. For USA, at least we have Micro-Trains Gundersons and instruction to convert them to AP or drawbar units. Makes me think twice, though about getting nice Z intermodal running....the containers are out there but the cars not so much.

This goes back to another crazy idea that I had. ..Here I am at a Z show.and there are guys on one side moving containers on their German layout. On the other side are guys moving containers on their American layout. IF people are moving cars and doing operating, using cards and orders and scedules, why not do it with containers and pass them across the way to each other.
The trouble, I am told,is that MTL and Marklin containers arent the same and they wount fit in each others cars. If somone can figure that out, with an adapter or compromise, then people could have German container cars, American container cars, and use the same containers. So again the price would be cut as you are using the same containers for both cars.
Sombody on the American side needs to step up to the plate and build a German railcar, to break into the market. An Intermodel car like Andy suggested would be the one to build.